All right, welcome to Mystery Wire. Glad to have you with us here with George Nap. I’m Ron Futur. George, howdy. I’m doing well. Good to see you. Got some good stuff here today.
>> Oh, this I’m looking forward to this episode. We’ve also got John Forest and Carlos Samson here helping us out putting putting this episode together.
We are talking Skinwalker Ranch in the History Channel show that I’ve done a deep dive into now in its seventh season. The Secret of Skinwalker. One of the highest rated shows from what I understand on the History Channel doing very well. The owner of the ranch and also one of the stars of the show, Brandon Fugal is with us. George, you of course wrote the book. You wrote the book on Skinwalker Ranch and now Brandon’s a key figure certainly in all of this.
>> He is the steward of the ranch, an able steward, I would say, a worthwhile steward. He’s taken over and taken it to new heights. Brandon is uh perhaps the most successful commercial real estate guy in the whole state of Utah. He had an interest, met some people that were associated with the Bigalow era of the ranch and got an interest himself and bought it 10 years ago this year and has taken the investigation to new heights.
Brandon, I guess happy anniversary.
Maybe it’s 10 years since you took over the ranch.
>> Indeed, my friend. Uh over 10 years of uh of investigation under my stewardship at Skinwalker Ranch. And as you know better than anyone, I bought it as a skeptic. did not expect that I would ever uh see anything unusual. I bought it in secret. Was never going to reveal my identity. But uh life had a different
plan. Um and now I’m I’m not a believer.
I’m an experiencer. And the the hit docue series on the History Channel, which airs every Tuesday night, has has really brought to the public a an unprecedented view into the world’s leading frontier science investigation at the number one most scientifically studied paranormal hot spot on the planet, Skinwalker Ranch.
>> Let’s talk about your transformation.
And as you mentioned, you were a skeptic going in and for a while you didn’t let it know be known that you’re the guy who bought the ranch away from Bigalow. Um I imagine you had some trepidation back then. How is it going to go over in in your career in commercial real estate?
You’re dealing with power brokers, the most powerful people in the state, both political and economic. You had to be worried at some point. And now would you say that the transformation has made it where it’s an asset for you?
>> Um it’s a that’s a great question. It’s been an interesting journey. I I bought the ranch never intending to reveal my identity as the the owner or the steward simply because I didn’t want my name ever associated with these topics. I I really didn’t believe that there was any truth to the claims. I thought it was interesting, but nothing more than an adult scientific snipe hunt and the product of group think. Um and so for 4 years though I I kept my identity uh secret uh for a reason. Uh but I I I had a transformational experience about six months into owning the ranch where I was hosting some some dignitaries and we had all sorts of strange phenomena uh actually occur on that day that culminated in a sighting of a flying saucer right above the Mesa Plateau that runs the expanse of the property. that was witnessed by others sitting there with me. And that uh that event which lasted all of 20 seconds, but uh but was uh a stunning sighting in broad daylight of a craft of unknown origin that was conducting maneuvers with split second speed and then gone after about 20 seconds of uh of of really I think maneuvering. uh right ahead of us uh over the ranch. uh changed me from being a an open-minded skeptic to an experiencer and then thrust me into this world where we have we’ve invested it well not just millions but now tens of millions of dollars into a leading frontier scientific investigation uh into this most enigmatic piece of property that was part of a Pentagon funded black budget program that you George actually reported and broke the story on. So, we’re kind of having a full circle moment here uh with you relative to uh this incredible property.
>> You know, it’s um you know, it’s risky.
Uh it takes courage to tackle this as as you and your team have done because you don’t know what you’re dealing with. I mean, it changes. The only thing that’s constant at the ranch is change. That the phenomena itself changes. I I remember talking to you and your team before the TV shows began and you know cautioning, hey, this thing might decide to up and leave. It hasn’t, but it has transformed an awful lot, hasn’t it?
>> It has. The phenomena, it’s transient.
It’s unpredictable.
>> It’s always two steps ahead of us, it seems. There’s a trickster element to to what we are dealing with. And uh and there’s even some dark um more negative uh forces at play here. There’s a reason why this property has been locked down with armed 247 surveillance. I mean, we’ve had armed guarded surveillance for now 30 years on this property between my stewardship and my predecessor, Robert Bigalow. And it’s for a reason. It’s because this place is dangerous. Uh people have ended up in the hospital with mysterious illnesses, injuries. Uh it’s a very sensitive scientific investigation and uh phenomena as you know George you’ve reported on it phenomena follows people home that uh that that come out to visit the ranch on occasion. uh we call it the hitchhiker effect which has had a profound impact not only I believe on my predecessor you know Robert Bigalow who owned it for decades before but uh military officials and other scientists that have visited the ranch that have had strange phenomena follow them home and and really wreak havoc even in their own in their own families. I I know that at least one of your team members has had it follow him. Uh how about you? you the last time you and I talked it had not followed you at home.
>> Yeah, I was I was fortunate. I went uh most of the last decade without ever experiencing that until about two years ago, George.
>> Two years ago that changed. We had a day of experiments, very aggressive experiments that involved my helicopter and another craft that were conducting very aggressive um investigation over the ranch using some new equipment and everything went wrong that day. Uh we’re very fortunate that people didn’t die uh that day and uh something followed me home and it took weeks to be able to to eradicate it to to get it to leave our our home. It it really uh it was an unsettling experience that my wife and I still reflect on. uh that again is is part of uh the the stewardship and some of the the more unfortunate uh consequences of being involved with Skinwalker Ranch. No, I’d like to like to talk more about that experience also with the dignitaries. You said some of the when you saw an aircraft fly over you early on in your ownership of this property and there were dignitaries there that you were hosting at the time.
What what was their reaction?
>> Well, it was to be very clear, it was a flying saucer. I mean, I was hosting a former uh surgeon from Area 51, retired medical professional whose number one bucket list item in his life was to visit Skinwalker Ranch. I granted the request. We hosted he and his team, his security, who spent the day with us. And as we are winding down a very eventful day of electromagnetic anomalies, equipment malfunction, even all of our smartphones had been drained simultaneously. As we are going back to retrieve our phones, right ahead of us in broad daylight, 4:00 in the afternoon on October 14th, 2016, a 4050 foot long silver grayish disc-like object appeared right above the mesa in front of us in broad daylight and uh started conducting maneuvers. Could change position in the blink of an eye. And after conducting a number of maneuvers, almost looking like it was surveying the property or even us, it was gone. It just either it it either either sped off at some unbelievable speed or was able to to cloak itself or or blink out of this reality. But uh it was very physical, was very real. It speaks to the nuts and bolts nature of the phenomena um which which is up for debate but there’s something very physical happening uh at Skinwalker Ranch and uh we’re we’re fortunate to be part of I think the world’s leading living laboratory studying the phenomena.
>> Okay, we’ve got to take a break right now. When we come back want to talk we’ve got plenty of questions certainly between George and I that we can that we can cover with you. Brandon Fugal is our guest here talking about The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. Uh the History Channel special. August 18th is the series finale. It’s every Tuesday night on the History Channel. We’ll take a quick break on Mystery Wire and be right back.
All right, we continue with Brandon Fugal who is coming to us from Utah here. Um, and discussing Skinwalker Ranch and the show that uh Look what you started, George.
>> Not my fault.
>> I’m going to put it I’m going to put it on you starting uh one of the great lines in in watching some of the episodes last night from season 7 on the History Channel.
Something’s not playing nice here. I heard some one of one of you, it might have been you on the show. Uh something’s not playing very nice here.
Um which that seems to be a recurring theme. Uh and and that’s putting it mildly, would you say? Something’s not playing nice because you had more more extreme things than just that happening than not playing nice. No, we’ve had some really disturbing things happen and and we’ve had some really groundbreaking observations this season which are continuing uh and to be unveiled over the the course of the next few days as we as we race to the season finale. Uh we had a return to Homestead 2. You know, one of the most unique features of the ranch is its old pioneer homesteads. Uh and Homestead 2 and Homestead 3 have been centers of gravity for strange phenomena uh that have that have been caught on camera that have been recorded with scientific instrumentation and are part of the overall historical narrative going back to the Bigalow investigation that George Knapp has so expertly reported on for decades. Uh so we we’ve had a return back to some of the the more uh mysterious uh portions of the ranch and locations to to get better data and to follow up there as well as testing what is both above and below this property uh to hopefully lead us to to the answers. You know, one of the things that the great successes of this season in particular is really nailing down evidence uh of interference with equipment of all kinds. Uh it used to be the the Bigalow guys, the NIDS guys would have batteries die, cameras die, vehicles die, all all kinds of stuff that they suspected was related to whatever the intelligence is on the ranch, but couldn’t really prove it. This time you’ve got you’re doing experiments. It’s sort of like poking the bear shooting rockets and floating drones over a particular area of the ranch very clearly has been affected by whatever it is that’s there and you’ve got it on camera. Yeah. Dr. Taylor calls it poking the hornets’s nest.
>> Right.
>> And one thing that distinguishes our investigation and this this very real docu series uh from all others is the fact that we are led by the data, not an inherited narrative. We are let letting the data guide and we’re using the scientific method to to frankly document and better understand the nature of what is at play at Skinwalker Ranch and what we’re actually dealing with. Who or what are we interacting with on this really strange property with uh with an unusual history?
>> Can you describe where you are now? What your team figures that is documentable?
It seems like there’s a dome that affects equipment, drones, rockets, um, GPS, things of that sort, and that there it emanates perhaps from whatever is inside that that messa, and it appears to be a physical object, manufactured.
Can you give our listeners an update on what you’ve proven and what’s what you’ve succeeded in in proving this season in particular?
Without question, we’ve uh we’ve documented the reality of a field or a bubble that actually um encompasses a portion of this ranch and seems to not only deflect or defy everything from rockets, instrumented balloons, drones, but uh but it has an impact on GPS. GPS does not function properly over this property, nor do compasses, for example.
But in addition to that, and you alluded to this, George, we’ve extracted strange manufactured engineered material from deep within the mesa. So from hundreds of feet within this messa plateau, we’ve extracted material of unknown origin that is not natural, which which points to something very unusual being buried on this ranch that may be part of the mechanism at play. Whether it be a we’ve Excuse me.
We’ve had some speculation as to whether it’s a Stargate, a portal, um an interdimensional highway of sorts. Uh but above the ranch, we’ve also documented the the the reality that there’s structure. We’ve had this uh this blob, this uh this phenomena with structure that we’ve also been able to map and that we’ve caught on camera from multiple viewpoints. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that when we poke the hornets’s nest and we go out there with our instruments, unidentified aerero phenomena appear. UAP or UFO activity just happens to appear.
>> You want to take a second and and clear your throat? We’ll we can act that out.
>> The the the mesa seems to be, as you mentioned there, the mesa seems to be the focal point of something inside there. I saw the artifacts that that you the small little pieces of material that was taken from there and analyzed it. By the way, at at Utah Valley University, which thank you. My daughter went to school there, so and I understand you went to school there as well in Oram, Utah. And so that that put a smile on my face, but having the scientists there examine it.
And are you going to uh are you going to be able to find out what exactly is in this this messa that’s causing this to happen? You’re digging holes through it.
You’re sending uh probes down through it.
>> Uh well, yeah, I I’m glad you bring that up. Uh we we have engaged third-party experts, institutions. I mean, Utah Valley University is the largest university in the state of Utah with one of the most advanced scanning electron microscopes. Having the the physicists there study and analyze the material that we’ve been extracting in conjunction with our investigation has been important. We’ve also had others that uh that have been part of the investigation that have tested everything from brain functions on the ranch uh to to even bringing in a biologist that was a key part of verifying that we found what what can only be matched up with and described as a direwolf that was decomposing within Dry Gulch Creek. Uh that’s that’s that cuts within the property. So, we’ve been delving into all of those things with this season as far as going back to to the mysterious homesteads, testing what is both above and below the property and also, you know, trying to bring in every everyone from Native American spiritual leaders, shaman, uh, to additional third party experts, uh, from all over the world to help us understand and document what is happening. Uh we just have to be very careful because people every year we end up having some unfortunate events and uh there’s a reason for caution and and really approaching these topics in this property with humility. You got some really smart guys working for you, Dr. Travis Taylor and Eric Bard. I wonder if they in their in their off time, have they speculated or reverse engineered, at least in their mind, what technology can accomplish what’s been happening on that ranch? The the drones, you had four drones that dropped right out of the sky. Everybody had to to run for their lives before they get hit in the head. But what could do that? What what is it that that does that? Well, we have yet to be able to find any satisfactory answer to what could be uh literally reprogramming instantaneously or manipulating the equipment u disrupting our investigation on a constant basis. There really isn’t a a natural prosaic explanation or conventional explanation, George. And that’s part of what drives this investigation. And then you match that with the the acute medical episodes, injuries like you had with Thomas Winterton where he he ended up dying end ended up almost dying in the hospital uh with some very serious injuries. Uh also Dr. Taylor you know the first year that he came out as a skeptic now turned experiencer even Dr. Taylor ended up going to the hospital dealing with unexplained injuries. So this is this investigation is not for the faint of heart. I think there’s a reason why this was part of a Pentagon funded black budget program and and we take this very seriously. Is there ongoing surveillance of your operation by parties unknown?
>> And I ask in in this context um let’s say you get into that messa you confirm that it’s some ancient buried spacecraft or technology. I’ I’d worry that somebody would come and grab it.
>> Yeah. We we’ve had we’ve had some covert military uh surveillance of the property that’s that has all been caught on camera that we’ve documented uh that is unpredictable that happens to show up in tandem with a lot of our our research and experiments. We’ve also had some what I what I think are really disturbing things happen over the course of the last few months. We’ve had a an operation come right up to the border of the property, right above right on top of the mesa, uh right on top of where we’re trying to get answers. And it’s troubling uh the amount of disruption and covert surveillance and even some of these other what I believe to be bad actors involved with uh with either thwarting our investigation or mounting their own surveillance of what we are doing and what we’re discovering. Uh it’s pretty agitating.
>> Okay, The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch is the show. We’re talking with Brandon Fugal. It’s on the History Channel every Tuesday night. And of course, the season the season finale is going to be on the 18th of August. We’re going to take a quick break. One final segment right after this.
What’s great about talking with Brandon Fugal and you George on this on this topic is we we could do hours. First of all, let’s go there. Uh but under time constraints, this is one show. Well, we’re going to do a part two with Brandon. So, next Thursday night, we’re going to drop another episode of this, the Secret of Skinwalker Ranch, talking about the History Channel episode. Um, what are some of the things you want to jump into with him?
>> Well, I want to get in the uh the spiritual side of this. You know, we’ve been hearing a lot of talk in Washington, the vice president talking about UFOs, the the information coming out of the Trump administration, releases of old files and videos and things and a lot of speculation that whatever this is, it’s demonic as opposed to extraterrestrial. You know, that those kinds of um uh ideas have been floated about Skinwalker Ranch for a long time. And one of the reasons the OSAP program, the DIA investigation was cancelled is because some mucky mucks in the Pentagon thought, hey, you’re messing with demonic forces here.
Investigating this is inviting big trouble from really bad entities in the world. So, I want to get his take on that. Uh, also, you know, I think it’s worth talking about not only the transformation of the ranch and the transformation of the investigation, but of Brandon himself. You know, um, he’s a polite guy. He he always uh you know he always uh is is goodnatured in his exchanges with the public. He answers ridiculously hostile questions in the most professional way. But I’ve seen him take people on, you know, in social media and stuff and respond to hostile attacks in a very pointed way. Doesn’t have to call anybody and talk about their mom or something like that, but he gets right down to it and gets in people’s faces and responding to them.
>> Okay. Look forward to that. That will be part two. You’ll be able to see it on our YouTube pages. Certainly, we get a lot of uh people watching there. Or download the app onto your smart TV and we can do that. But um that’s the end of episode one, Skinwalker Insider for George Nap. I’m Ron Futrell. Don’t forget August 18th, the series finale of The Search, uh The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. Bye for now, everybody.
