Well, happy summer of Skinwalke.
George is what we got today. Everybody’s celebrating.
So we’re going to celebrate it.
Take a deep dive into some of the things that’s happened over the years at Skinwalker Ranch with John Forrest and Carlos Sampson.
I’m Ron Futrell. I’m George.
Here we go. Let’s jump right into it. Now, I’ve watched some of the History Channel on what’s going with Brandon Fugel and what’s happening now at Skinwalker Ranch, but you’ve got the history of that place and know it from, I’m going to say beginning to end, at least recorded history on that property in Northeast Utah.
Yeah. So 30 years ago this year, in the spring of 1996, Robert Bigelow had created this organization called NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science, and they were looking for things to do. He’s got this world-class body of experts.
He’s got an investigative team that he’s just hiring, and he hears about this ranch in Northeastern Utah where they’re seeing a lot of UFOs and cattle mutilations. At the same time, I think you read it in the Deseret News.
There was an article there.
He flies down with John Alexander to the ranch, speaks to the rancher, who gives him sort of a broad view, but not all the details about what’s been going on there. On the spot, Bigelow buys the ranch.
He sends NIDS down to start investigating, and it was 30 years ago when the official scientific investigation of the ranch star, and it’s been underway ever since, meaning it is the most intensely studied UFO paranormal hotspot in the world.
There is John Alexander, a shot of him right there, and in fact, you talk to him, he’s got interesting thoughts about what he saw there, and I’m going to ask
you to explain some of what John Alexander is saying right .
Well, you know the ranch very w, Skinwalker Ranch, and the problem we had there, and this is where I developed the precognitive sentient phenomena, something else is in control, and if it wants you to find out, it may allow that, but if it doesn’t, this thing just keeps moving.
Morphing and changing into, you know, new shapes and forms, things we’re doing now, we’re on camera, we had cameras there, and things that happened just off c, or sometimes in front of the ca, but you wouldn’t see them.
Precognitive, as you said, because it always seemed to stay one step ahead.
Right.
It can anticipate what you’re going to do.
Yeah, before you even know that you’re going to do it.
Okay, so he says precognitive st phenomena.
What’s he talking about there? Well, sentient meaning it’s intelligent, whatever’s there is smart, it seems to be able to anticipate what we’re doing, it can, and it’s phenomena, multiple, plural, because it appears in many different ways.
It lets you see certain things, certain phenomena, it leaves physical evidence here and there, but in no discernible pattern, and precognitive in that it seems to be able to anticipate what the people on t, the investigators, were going to do before they did it, before they even knew they were going to do it, which is hard to accept.
Yeah, but that’s the way it was.
That’s what he saw. Okay, and these are scientists.
Right. All looking at this, inspecting this. Right.
You literally wrote the book on it. Right. On Skinwalker Ranch and made people aware of what it is.
Towards the end of this, I want to talk about the current state, what it is today, but there are some great aerial.
Also involved in this was Colm , Cork, Ireland, also has some British background there as well.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing his Irish accent, number one, but what he has to say is also very, very important, c, and he talks about some of the things that he saw there at Skinwalker Ranch.
Most of the activity that we have is centered around this ra, and that was all kind of very s, poltergeist kind of stuff that seems to have changed in c, even though the same silver discs have been seen, Mexican hat.
And the same type UFOs have been seen in the area, but overlaid on that, you’ve got these multiple kind of poltergeist psychic typ, and that, I’m not aware of that kind of intensity up in Montana.
So even though you have years of intense attention devoted to this piece of ground, at the end of the day, what do ?
You mean this particular proper?
This property right here.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, if you count up all of the incidents that pre -NIDS and post-NIDS that we have a really good idea of what happened, we’ve close to 100 different incidents.
If you look at those incidents, the only thing that jumps out at you is how unreproducible incidents are.
So if, you know, supposing we went into a big training session, and we trained like hell to…
you know to to to deal with animal mutilations or with lights in the sky or with you know any of the incidents that have happened animals being moved into different locations no two incidents ever repeated themselves so you could almost see that as as some kind of a learning curve that we’ve been on so you know training is meaningless when nothing is repeated and that has happened consistently it’s the only thing consistent okay so nids the national institute of discovery science there he mentioned he mentioned the hundred things that they had discovered and uncovered you got the paperwork on this nids has never released it but this is my dog-eared copy of that list and um and it’s some amazing stuff and as column said it was frustrating for that team they’re scientists they want replicable results things that repeat and nothing ever happened the same way this mont6 was a was a peak of activity nids had just got there they’re not just hearing stories they’re seeing these things for themselves and this month uh the rancher there experienced something really weird there’s only one way into this property and it goes right by the ranch house something went into his field and dug these cookie cutter type of scoops of soil two or three hundred pounds per hole and there were a whole bunch of these holes it would take heavy equipment to get in there there’s no heavy equipment that got on that property that he wouldn’t see also this month giant orange hole in the sky blue orb comes out of the hole the dog the rancher’s dog start messing with it and it leads them off into the brush and poof the the rancher hears this scream these yelps from the dog and they were vaporized it was 30 years ago this month and you know of course nids is there they’re investigating all of these things as they happen and they can’t prove any of it they can see some of it that happened there is physical evidence but there’s no explanation and you can tell from that sound bite from column that he’s getting a lot of But he was a little bit frustrated with how hard it was to come to any kind of conclusion what was going on.
One thing I do want to talk about is the site and some of the frightening things that actually happened.
You’ve been there how many times? How many times?
Twenty-five, twenty-six.
Okay.
Plenty of times you’ve not seen any of this phenomenon you, almost, maybe it is sentient and it knows George is on the property, I’m just saying.
Figures I don’t need to see it or whatever. I started going there in 2000, Matt Adams and I started going , we’ve been there a bunch of tim.
I think the only thing we saw was a light in the center homestead at one point, don’t know what it is, but there’s no electricity there so it’s not like somebody plugged in a lantern or something.
But things do tend to follow yo, we’ll get into that in a little.
It’s been very frustrating.
I always felt good at the ranch, I had a good feeling there.
Once you get past the possibility that some giant predator type monster is going to come out and roar at you or something that was mutilating all these animals in a horrific but very precise fashion and then creatures and poltergeist activ, once you get sort of past the frightening aspect of that, it’s a really beautiful p.
Okay, I do want to talk about that, the hitchhikers and bring you up to date on what is going on now at Skinwal, we will do that when we return here to Mystery Wire with George Knapp.
Okay, it’s gone through Skinwalker Ranch, gone through various points of ownership, I believe. I believe the Ballar, a prominent LDS family, owned it at one point.
And then you mentioned going up there with Robert Bigelow, where he then decided, did you talk him into buying the ranch or was it easy for him to do it? No, no, he did that all on his own. He said, I want it, I want to find out what’s going on here. As soon as he talked to the rancher and heard out what was going on, and then he learned a lot more about what had been going on from the rancher, from his neighbors, from the tribe, from police officers who had been called to the property over the years, I mean the volume of weird stuff that’s ha, it’s mind boggling.
But yeah, he bought the ranch.
He sent his guys to be there 24-7 for the first couple of ye, and the activity would ebb and flow.
There were peak periods, 96, 97.
I was hearing about some of this back here in Las Vegas, but they wouldn’t let me go on the property until I bugged them enough in 2000.
We wrote an article for a local magazine, Las Vegas Mercury, a newspaper, and then boom, boom, the world knew about what had been going on there, and all the weirdness, the paranormal stuff.
People had known about it being a UFO hotspot since the 1970s, because people who’d been there, just about everybody had seen something and had reported them, thousands and thousands of cases, but they didn’t know all the other really weird stuff that was going on at the .
It’s throughout the Uinta Basin, the weirdness, the epicenter is this property, 480 acres that Bigelow owned, but it’s weirdness that happens throughout that area, and no one’s exactly sure why.
And Native Americans have stori.
It goes back not just since we’ve been dealing with this. Many generations.
Generations, yes. In general, they say it’s not a good place to go. Stay away.
It’s not forbidden, but they say stay away from that. Trust the Utes if they’re telling you that, so st.
Okay, hitchhikers.
We’re going to hear from Robert Bigelow on the hitchhike.
Explain it to me if you can, as best you can, what this is.
It’s like an attachment.
Yeah. You go to the property and things attach themselves to you and follow you home.
You don’t know it at the time. For a lot of people who v, they haven’t had any experiences, but most of the principal investigators, including the DIA personnel, there was a DIA program that was initiated after these intelligence guys read Hunt for the Skinwalker, our book, and they thought, gosh, this is a place we could go study UFOs. They visited their .
And then several more of these intelligence people visited the property during this 27-month period. That OSAP program was underway, and they all took something hom, all of them. And for some of them, it stayed with them for y.
For one in particular, it’s still now, 30 years later, I mean, or 20 years later, it’s still with them. And Mr.
Bigelow experienced some of this hitchhiker phenomenon for .
Okay, here’s Robert Bigelow talking about this hitchhiker e.
Holy crap.
Hitchhikers.
Well, yeah, that, you know, so hitchhikers being that you take things home with you.
Everybody took things home with.
I took things to my house.
Things happened to my wife and to me, different things.
So everybody took things home.
We all, you know, we did, but we didn’t know that, gee, it was like gonna be kind of permanent.
You know, we didn’t accept.
We didn’t know that. We didn’t know that, you know, that it’s gonna stay with you for maybe for years and years or the rest of your life, who knows.
But the ones that bothered me a lot were where anybody got hurt or really disturbed.
And not that it happened on the.
It was when they left the ranch, as you say, hitchhikers, and these were government people and affected them.
Very dramatic ways, though. Very dramatic ways. Very dramatic ways.
And some of these experiences, I’ve heard the people from the DIA describe them, and they’re not pleasant.
No.
No, not pleasant at all. They’re frightening experiencess frightening, yeah.
And I don’t think it’s physically harmed anyone as an attachment that follows you .
But it certainly has scared a lot of people. And it spreads almost like a virus, as described by Dr.
Kelleher.
In one particular, this family, they started seeing creatures, balls of light spinning in thei.
Disembodied entities, things of that sort, really upset their family.
And there were trickster activi.
The dog finds itself up on the roof kind of thing.
And it’s gone on for years and .
Now, I tried to get some of that to generate it. I would bring things home to my house and, hey, what do you got? Let’s see what’s going on.
And again, I never saw anything.
But my wife has, and Kelleher’s wife has, and Bigelow’s wife has.
And all of the intelligence agents that went there during the OSAP period, all of them had had experiences as well. And it really disrupted their lives.
Bigelow had the property until .
And really, this threat of the hitchhiker was at least part of the reason he wanted to sell off the property.
Brandon Fugle came in.
So it’s 10 years ago now since Brandon Fugle and his com, Adamantium, bought the property.
They had it for a couple of years before the TV show starte.
And they’re still there, plugging away, trying to figure this stuff out.
And they are. And here’s Brandon Fugle, in fact, who owns the property now, like you said, owned it for 10 years.
And giving his thoughts on signing liability waivers is one of the provisions he makes if you’re coming out of this property.
The ranch is a dangerous place.
There’s a reason why we have everyone who enters the property sign liability waivers. It doesn’t matter whether they’re delivering the porta-potties or bringing food service in or wha.
Everyone has to sign a liabilit.
Acknowledging the risks associated with entering the pr.
It’s a fact that bad things happen out there.
And we have unfortunately had a number of people in the hospital with mysterious injuries that still defy any real conventional explanation this past year alon.
And that’s in addition to Thomas Winterton’s injuries that are showcased quite a bit on the series just because of his role.
But it is a dangerous place. We’re dealing with forces that, frankly, you know, we don’t understand. I believe there are both malevolent and benevolent forces as well as be.
Okay, Thomas Winterton’s injuri.
Tell me about that.
Thomas Winterton is a good guy.
He’s the ranch manager, I think, is his position there now. He had the equivalent of an attack on his , kind of like Havana syndrome, what people are describing now.
This put him in the hospital, almost killed him.
There’s no causal relationship between the ranch and the fact that it happened to him. It’s just kind of coincidental.
But it was really serious.
There are other injuries that have been serious.
Travis Taylor, if people have watched the show, was exposed to radiation.
It’s a transient source of radi.
One second it’s there and caused him medical problems and exposures, and then it’s go.
And there’s nothing there that would promote radiation.
No. There’s nothing that we know of. No, they’ve looked for it. They’ve searched the gr.
They’ve, you know. Even when NIDS first came in, they looked for a baseline of information about the property.
Are there psychoactive plants on the property?
Are there gravity anomalies?
They looked for other possible explanations of all this weird stuff and never foun.
What causes radiation and then it’s poisoning and then it?
What causes a brain injury and then it’s gone?
It’s a very strange place.
Beautiful, enigmatic, the most studied paranormal hotspot in the world.
I mean, it’s now 30 years since the study began. 20 years of Bigelow, 27 months of , and now 10 years of Brandon Fugle and his team.
And nobody really has an answer for it yet.
No, I want to find out, bring us up to date on what’s happening on the property now with that show.
I’ve seen a few episodes of it, enjoyed it.
We will do that when Mystery Wire returns.
Okay, we are celebrating, if you will, the summer of Skinwalker here and enjoying it, the ranch up in Northeast Utah that now there’s a History Channel show on. There’s been a lot of documentaries, you’ve been a part of them.
The show, tell me about, well, I’ve seen it, I’ve seen them looking for certain things and they find phenomena, again, stuff that is difficult to meas, a movement of a drone that’s unexplained and things like tha.
What do you think of what we’re seeing now with that show?
I think they’re doing a good job trying to figure it out.
You’re hamstrung in a sense that all of the studies so far have been sort of poking th.
What happens if we don’t do it? What happens if we do this?
Whatever it is that’s in charge, this intelligence, this entity or phenomena that John Alexander described, it calls the shots.
You only get to see what it allows you to see.
Cameras can be here looking where there had been activity the night before, it moves over to here.
I mean, it doesn’t want to be h, which is one of the reasons why Mr. Bigelow gave up on the property because the level of activity went down so far there was hardly anything for the NIDS guys to d.
That’s when the OSAP program came in. So Dr.
James Lekatsky and Jay Stratton, who are working for t, the Defense Intelligence Agency, had read the book, Hunt for the Skinwalker, decided, hey, let’s go there. Maybe we could study UFOs at a place where we know they’re going to show up.
And that launched with the help from Senator Harry Reid, the largest acknowledged UFO investigation in history of the U.S.
government, $22 million secured by Harry Re.
It went on for 27 months.
They sent a lot of investigators. They sent investigators to the ranch.
Those people saw a lot of very weird stuff, along with the NIDS team that had been left over.
And how do you describe it?
I mean, you know, the basic doc, they produced a gigantic storehouse of information and the world’s largest known UFO database, data warehouse, I should say.
All of that is still classified, tucked away somewhere.
The only things we know about the OSAP program are what.
Lekatsky and Colm Kelleher and I have released.
What’s that? It’s what was allowed by the DOPSER process to be made public.
But the original material, it’s all still stashed away som.
Is there an explanation?
I mean, do you have an explanation for this? Or is just that area something that, well, this is mystery wire.
It’s a mystery.
It seems to me that it’s a learning curve or something, that whatever is there was trying to tell us something about the nature of reality.
It isn’t what it used to be.
That all these things that we think are separate.
Phenomena.
Animal mutilations, UFOs, poltergeist, trickster activity, disembodied voices, all kinds of strange stuff.
You know, crop circles, they’ve all been there in one form or another.
It’s as if whatever is in charge there is telling us there’s a link between all thes.
Bigfoot type creatures too.
There’s a link between all thes.
It’s up to you folks to figure it out. That’s what I take away from it.
You know, some people have very bad experiences there.
I’ve always felt good about the property when I’m there.
I feel like I’ve stuck my finger in the socket and got electrified.
Yeah.
And it’s just, okay, I’ve got to go there sometime is my thought.
Is one of the thoughts.
There are risks.
There are risks.
I’m serious.
Maybe not take my wife.
Well, if you go and you go home, chances are she’ll experience it anyway. That’s what’s been described by so many people. The hitchhiker effect that is there and it’s real. These people.
These people are all having the same experiences up there in Northeast Utah.
It does look beautiful.
I mean, it’s, it’s what we have out West here, these wide open spaces, and it’s an absolute incredible phenomenon. You can find out more on our websit, go to 8newsnow.com mystery wire and look in there.
We’ve got more information, updated information.
I’d like to look into those documents you’ve got there.
The hundred or so. You might be able to take a look.
Okay. Different things that have happened. So we’ve collected a lot of information. I think more than anyone. Anywhere online that we’re putting on a new pag, a compendium of some of the key interviews, John Alexander, Robert Bigelow, Colm Kelleher, James Lekatsky.
And then I think that they’re going to be more interviews coming in the future, but 30 years ago, it all started. It’s still underway under the, the Fugle o.
And someday maybe we’ll get some answers. I’m not holding my breath though.
And you can see the broadcast on the history channe.
If you’d like to see it and you’ve got your book, the hunt for skin Walker, that’s been out.
Skinwalkers at the Pentagon was the one that was written by.
Lekatsky and Colm Kelleher who were part of that OSAP prog.
It’s a, it’s really good stuff.
Interesting and, and perplexing, you know, also if you could, I’m going to have a little plug here.
Download the app to your TV, your smart TV, eight news now, Vegas, download that app.
And you’ll be able to see previous editions of mystery wi.
It’s also on YouTube there.
If you’ve got a question for George, pop it up on our YouTube page and I’ll, I searched through a lot of it. A lot of the comments on there sometimes respond and we’ll come up with some questions. We’ll do, do a question and answer segment at some point with you and do much more, but thank you so much for watching mystery where more and more episodes coming up. Um, never enough time to get everything in, but love the summer of skin Walker, George.
Thank you very much. And thanks for watching.
